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Dwarkesh Podcast

Si Sheppard – How did a few hundred Spanish soldiers topple two empires?

New episode with military historian Si Sheppard.

Full show notes

The conquests of the Aztec and Inca empires might be the most shocking events in human history.

Hernan Cortés and some hundreds of Conquistadors landed on a new continent they knew basically nothing about, and within 2 and a half years, conquered the 6 million strong Aztec empire.

Then, a decade later, Francisco Pizarro did the same thing to an Incan Empire of some 10 million inhabitants.

In both cases, the Conquistadors consistently beat native armies while being literally 100x (or even in some cases 1000x) outnumbered - and in many cases, did so without taking a single casualty.

And they did this with 99% of their military forces being made up of the very natives they were trying to subjugate.

We often forget how wild human history is. People talk about AI takeover as if it would be some crazy, unprecedented sci-fi outcome. But this would not be the first time an alien force whose motives the defenders barely understand use more advanced technology and diplomatic cunning to outmaneuver and then take over a much larger and long established existing order.

Watch on YouTube; read the transcript.

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Timestamps

(00:00:00) – Cortés’s conquest of the Aztecs

(00:22:39) – Pizarro’s conquest of the Inca

(00:26:59) – Explaining Conquistador military superiority

(00:34:39) – Could the natives have beat the Conquistadors?

(00:48:56) – The Aztecs and Incas did not get to learn from each other

(00:56:11) – Why Spain still lost in the long run

(01:07:47) – Why didn’t the Aztecs/Incas adapt better to European warfare?

(01:14:16) – Conquistador motivation

(01:26:22) – Why Mughal India also couldn’t play the Europeans off each other

(01:33:42) – Diplomacy was just as important as technology

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1 Oct 2026 · 1:37:23 · transcript: transcribed · original

507claims extracted
2speakers named
21%of speech attributed
1308transcript segments

Claims

In the order they were said

“under immense pressure from external forces and cut off from the core economic power bases of the east the sources of the spice and silk that had driven the global economy historically throughout eurasia are finally forced to innovate key names like prince henry the navigator of portugal work on turning the atlantic ocean from a barrier into a super highway generational knowledge accrued from captains reporting in”

Claim: In the period described, Europe faced pressure from external forces and was cut off from eastern economic centers supplying spices and silk, which had historically driven Eurasian trade.

“under immense pressure from external forces and cut off from the core economic power bases of the east the sources of the spice and silk that had driven the global economy historically throughout eurasia are finally forced to innovate key names like prince henry the navigator of portugal work on turning the atlantic ocean from a barrier into a super highway generational knowledge accrued from captains reporting in On tides and wind currents and whatever land they've managed to reconnoiter, building out the map as they go along,”

Claim: European explorers accumulated navigational and geographic knowledge from captains' reports on tides, wind currents, and surveyed lands, building maps incrementally.

“under immense pressure from external forces and cut off from the core economic power bases of the east the sources of the spice and silk that had driven the global economy historically throughout eurasia are finally forced to innovate key names like prince henry the navigator of portugal work on turning the atlantic ocean from a barrier into a super highway generational knowledge accrued from captains reporting in”

Claim: Prince Henry the Navigator of Portugal and others worked to make the Atlantic Ocean a route for travel rather than a barrier.

“He arrives in the lands of the Totonacs, who had recently been incorporated into the imperial orbit of a people who call themselves the Mecca, hence Mecca as we know it, but have come down to history based on their mythical origins in a land called Aslan as the Aztecs, so simplicity's sake, that's what we'll refer to them as.”

Claim: The Totonacs had recently come under the imperial authority of the Mexica, a people later referred to as the Aztecs.

“He enumerates in the title those critical advantages that the Spaniards had. Guns in reality weren't so significant. Once the Native people's got over the shock value they have They appreciated given the very slow reloading times involved in firearms of that time that they weren't so significant as assets on the battlefield.”

Claim: The speaker says firearms were not very significant battlefield assets after Indigenous people overcame their shock value, given the firearms’ slow reloading times.

“Local weapons were carved from wood and from stone and from obsidian, that volcanic glass, which is razor sharp when honed to a point and quite dangerous as a slashing weapon. But against the steel armor and especially the steel helmets that the conquistadors were wearing. It was much less effective.”

Claim: Weapons made locally from wood, stone, and obsidian were much less effective against the conquistadors’ steel armor, particularly their helmets.

“I actually think that was his best option, whether he was aware of it or not, because it was better for him. To have Cortez as his guest within Tenochtitlan than it was to have Cortez this random element at loose within his empire talking to the subject peoples, inflaming them possibly against central authority.”

Claim: The speaker believes Moctezuma’s best option was to host Cortez in Tenochtitlan, because this was preferable to letting Cortez roam the empire and possibly inflame subject peoples against central authority.

“So the emperor's mistake wasn't inviting Cortes into this. into the city he was making himself vulnerable by staying there also in an adjacent palace if he had gone to some further location made some excuse a pilgrimage or an expedition of some kind and had ruled through subordinates Cortes would have been baffled and he couldn't go chasing after the emperor that that would be obviously too provocative but without the emperor there Cortes would have had his options extremely limited and I don't know what he would have done in that circumstance.”

Claim: The speaker argues that Montezuma's mistake was not inviting Cortes into the city, but remaining in the capital and an adjacent palace, which made him vulnerable.

“into the city he was making himself vulnerable by staying there also in an adjacent palace if he had gone to some further location made some excuse a pilgrimage or an expedition of some kind and had ruled through subordinates Cortes would have been baffled and he couldn't go chasing after the emperor that that would be obviously too provocative but without the emperor there Cortes would have had his options extremely limited and I don't know what he would have done in that circumstance.”

Claim: The speaker speculates that if Montezuma had left the capital and ruled through subordinates, Cortes would have been baffled and unable to pursue him without provoking an excessive response; without Montezuma, Cortes's options would have been extremely limited, though the speaker does not know what Cortes would have done.

“defeats him in a minor battle, and again the diplomacy wins over the entire expeditionary force that the governor had dispatched. He tells them, my friends, why are we fighting? We have... The empire at my disposal joined with me and we can share in the riches. So he wins over the vast majority of this new force. It becomes effectively reinforcements.”

Claim: After defeating De Narváez in a minor battle, Cortez persuaded most of the governor's expeditionary force to join him as reinforcements.

“The people are so appalled now with the failure of their Huey Letawane. When he tries to pacify them, they throw stones at him. But mortally wounded, he either dies or the Spanish finish him off because he's of no longer any use to them.”

Claim: The people were appalled by their Huey Tlatoani's failure and threw stones at him when he tried to pacify them; the speaker says he either died of his mortal wounds or was killed by the Spanish, expressing uncertainty about which occurred.

“The Lashkallans, their own perspective on this, if you go to Lashkalla territory today, the governor's mansion there has murals on the wall. And these depict the cortez and the conquistadors from the Lachlan point of view. And it's fascinating to look at how the relationship is not between a superior and an inferior. It's between equals. You see them depicted in the same scale, engaged in diplomacy between partners, not between subordinates and dominant figures.”

Claim: Murals at the governor's mansion in Tlaxcala portray the Tlaxcalans and the conquistadors as equals and diplomatic partners, not as subordinates and dominant figures.

“which is very important to bear in mind, that the Aztec empire from a distance, if you look at a map, seemed impressive. But this was an imperial construct and not just the remaining independent entities like the Lachkalans, like the Tarascans, who we can discuss later, were hostile to the Aztecs. So were so many of their subordinated peoples.”

Claim: Despite appearing impressive on a map, the Aztec Empire faced hostility from independent neighboring peoples and many of its subordinated peoples.

“But the force that marches on Tenochtitlan, the total numbers, the Conquistadors were maybe one half of one percent in raw numbers of that force. The overwhelming majority were other Mesoamerican peoples who see this as their final reckoning with the Aztecs.”

Claim: Conquistadors constituted perhaps 0.5% of the force marching on Tenochtitlan, while most of the force consisted of other Mesoamerican peoples seeking a final reckoning with the Aztecs.

Unidentified speaker
“in the innovations they need sulfur for their gunpowder they have guns useless without gunpowder so an expedition goes into the mountains to the volcano popocatepetl and they dangle with ropes inside the caldera of the volcano scooping out the sulfur they need as the critical ingredient for their gunpowder another one”

Claim: Because Spanish guns were useless without gunpowder, an expedition collected sulfur from Popocatépetl's caldera as a key gunpowder ingredient.

Unidentified speaker
“builds prefabricated brigantines boats in their different sections and then has untold numbers of porters human load bearers bring these these prefabricated pieces over the mountains to the lake they're assembled and then they loosen the lake and then now they have control over the lake right so bringing together the technology the innovations with the local manpower and this is the force directed against Tenochtitlan in the final battle”

Claim: The Spanish transported prefabricated brigantine sections over the mountains with human porters, assembled them at the lake, and gained control of it.

Unidentified speaker
“And I think a better model might be something like imagine if it's Russia and Ukraine have been doing trench warfare for 100 years and imagine the animosity and then also the Russians are like taking tens of thousands of Ukrainians and like doing human sacrifices with them.”

Claim: The speaker proposes an analogy in which Russia and Ukraine have fought trench warfare for 100 years, with intense animosity and Russians taking tens of thousands of Ukrainians for human sacrifice, as a better model for understanding the conquest.

Unidentified speaker
“Absolutely. When Cortés consummates his conquest of Tenochtitlan in 1521, the last of the Huayatamani surrender to him and how he occupies the territory and most importantly, the top of the social hierarchy, the existing structure as much as possible. was allowed to persist. The conquistadors just decapitate the local nobility and insert themselves at the top.”

Claim: After Hernán Cortés conquered Tenochtitlan in 1521, the Spanish preserved much of the existing social structure but displaced the local nobility and installed themselves at its top.

Unidentified speaker
“uh the supper inca with his horses he sends one of his key lieutenants to put on a display of horsemanship and famously he charges right at the supper inca and all his his court and the horse stops just inches from from atahualpa's face snorting and breathing and atahualpa is absolutely stony faced and professes to be unimpressed and says i will meet with your master at a time of my choosing after the spaniards leave he has all of his court including his generals who flinched or showed George Fear executed, just to make the point that we're not to be intimidated by these people,”

Claim: Attahualpa executed generals who flinched or showed fear during the horse display to signal that the Inca would not be intimidated by the Spaniards.

Unidentified speaker
“uh the supper inca with his horses he sends one of his key lieutenants to put on a display of horsemanship and famously he charges right at the supper inca and all his his court and the horse stops just inches from from atahualpa's face snorting and breathing and atahualpa is absolutely stony faced and professes to be unimpressed and says i will meet with your master at a time of my choosing after the spaniards leave he has all of his court including his generals who flinched or showed”

Claim: Pizarro staged a horsemanship display where a horse charged at Attahualpa and his court, stopping inches from Attahualpa's face.

Unidentified speaker
“uh the supper inca with his horses he sends one of his key lieutenants to put on a display of horsemanship and famously he charges right at the supper inca and all his his court and the horse stops just inches from from atahualpa's face snorting and breathing and atahualpa is absolutely stony faced and professes to be unimpressed and says i will meet with your master at a time of my choosing after the spaniards leave he has all of his court including his generals who flinched or showed”

Claim: Attahualpa showed no visible reaction to the horse display, professed to be unimpressed, and said he would meet Pizarro's master at a time of his choosing after the Spaniards departed.

Unidentified speaker
“Some of them escaped into the countryside and the Spaniards rode after them just running them down as they fled and the only thing that stopped the massacre at the end was night was falling and the Spaniards in darkness couldn't continue the pursuit any longer. So it's what happens when something totally outside the universe of even veteran warriors.”

Claim: Some Inca escaped into the countryside, where the Spaniards pursued and ran them down; nightfall ended the pursuit because the Spaniards could not continue in darkness.

Unidentified speaker
“plays out in a way that they have no mental appreciation of or able to draw back any kind of library of how do I respond in this situation the fight-or-flight instinct just completely takes over and and the flight was the winner in this instance as you say the only casualty was Pizarro himself he's reaching for Adewale to take him prisoner and one of his more enthusiastic comrades slashing and manages to cut his hand as he does that that was the only injury any of the conquistadors suffered at this critical moment”

Claim: Because the attack was outside the Inca's experience and understanding, they had no response framework to draw on; their fight-or-flight instinct took over, and they fled.

Unidentified speaker
“appreciation of or able to draw back any kind of library of how do I respond in this situation the fight-or-flight instinct just completely takes over and and the flight was the winner in this instance as you say the only casualty was Pizarro himself he's reaching for Adewale to take him prisoner and one of his more enthusiastic comrades slashing and manages to cut his hand as he does that that was the only injury any of the conquistadors suffered at this critical moment”

Claim: During the encounter, Pizarro's hand was cut by a comrade as Pizarro reached to seize Atahualpa, and this was the conquistadors' only injury at that point.

Unidentified speaker
“at a distance and break up the impetus of their charge but that requires one the technology and two the discipline training and institutional knowledge to do that mesoamerican warfare was very loose in its formation warriors would want a lot of space between them which is the worst thing that you can do in regards to cavalry because the horses can take advantage of that looseness to just blast through any formation that is coming at them”

Claim: Countering cavalry charges with pikes required suitable technology as well as discipline, training, and institutional knowledge.

Unidentified speaker
“at a distance and break up the impetus of their charge but that requires one the technology and two the discipline training and institutional knowledge to do that mesoamerican warfare was very loose in its formation warriors would want a lot of space between them which is the worst thing that you can do in regards to cavalry because the horses can take advantage of that looseness to just blast through any formation that is coming at them”

Claim: Mesoamerican warfare used loose formations with space between warriors, allowing cavalry horses to break through.

Unidentified speaker
“Cortez takes over the Aztec Empire in what is now Mexico in two and a half years, so a couple hundred men. an empire of six million people two and a half years uh pizarro does the same thing for the inca empire 10 years later in about five years so it's insane how fast these conquests happened um and just how little time that the even though in principle they could have figured out ways in which to combat cavalry and things just how little time they had to adapt all the while their whole social structure is disintegrating there's disease etc there's all this like psychological shock”

Claim: Cortés conquered the Aztec Empire, then home to about six million people, in two and a half years with a few hundred men.

Unidentified speaker
“an empire of six million people two and a half years uh pizarro does the same thing for the inca empire 10 years later in about five years so it's insane how fast these conquests happened um and just how little time that the even though in principle they could have figured out ways in which to combat cavalry and things just how little time they had to adapt all the while their whole social structure is disintegrating there's disease etc there's all this like psychological shock”

Claim: Pizarro conquered the Inca Empire in about five years, roughly ten years after Cortés’s conquest.

Unidentified speaker
“scheme of things there are there are multiple wheels that define history the grand wheels that grind slowly geography and climate and then the small wheels in the foreground are the individuals the key players themselves and this is an integration of that that process the big wheels with the small ones yes if courtiers which could have happened on multiple occasions have been taken out early the conquistadors leaderless rudderless may well have disintegrated and the conquest may have been aborted at that at that level”

Claim: Had Pizarro's courtiers been removed early, the conquistadors might have become leaderless, disintegrated, and abandoned the conquest.

Unidentified speaker
“scheme of things there are there are multiple wheels that define history the grand wheels that grind slowly geography and climate and then the small wheels in the foreground are the individuals the key players themselves and this is an integration of that that process the big wheels with the small ones yes if courtiers which could have happened on multiple occasions have been taken out early the conquistadors leaderless rudderless may well have disintegrated and the conquest may have been aborted at that at that level”

Claim: History is shaped by the interaction of slow-moving forces such as geography and climate and the actions of individual key players.

Unidentified speaker
“see these outsiders as their chance to... chance to finally break free of Inca authority so strangely enough as it may seem more local peoples had when kept joining the besieged Spaniards during the whole battle of Cuzco which played out over many many months and the Spaniards end up with more allies and they started during this battle because there were so many people within the Inca Empire from the Canaria who were from Ecuador to the Chachapoya from The Amazon Basin, even the Ayamarca, who used to be rivals with the Inca for control of Cusco itself, increasingly side with the Spaniards. And that local manpower was the critical asset.”

Claim: During the months-long siege of Cusco, many local peoples joined the Spanish because they saw them as an opportunity to break free from Inca rule.

Unidentified speaker
“chance to finally break free of Inca authority so strangely enough as it may seem more local peoples had when kept joining the besieged Spaniards during the whole battle of Cuzco which played out over many many months and the Spaniards end up with more allies and they started during this battle because there were so many people within the Inca Empire from the Canaria who were from Ecuador to the Chachapoya from The Amazon Basin, even the Ayamarca, who used to be rivals with the Inca for control of Cusco itself, increasingly side with the Spaniards. And that local manpower was the critical asset.”

Claim: The Canari, Chachapoya, and Ayamarca increasingly allied with the Spanish, and the Ayamarca had previously competed with the Inca for control of Cusco.

Unidentified speaker
“themselves into an imperial orbit which from a distance looks impressive with this geographic expanse and its total population but which have been ruthlessly dictated to by a tiny elite of a hierarchy who would impose themselves over the entire system remember only a small number of people spoke Nahuatl the imperial language of the Aztecs only a small number spoke Quechua the imperial language of the Inca themselves it was the Inca Empire but it was constructed from multiple multiple different ethnicities and when they saw their chance they took it to side with the Spaniards”

Claim: The Spanish exploited an empire that looked powerful from afar because of its territory and population but was controlled by a small elite hierarchy.

Unidentified speaker
“dictated to by a tiny elite of a hierarchy who would impose themselves over the entire system remember only a small number of people spoke Nahuatl the imperial language of the Aztecs only a small number spoke Quechua the imperial language of the Inca themselves it was the Inca Empire but it was constructed from multiple multiple different ethnicities and when they saw their chance they took it to side with the Spaniards”

Claim: The Inca Empire comprised multiple ethnic groups, some of which sided with the Spanish when they saw an opportunity.

Unidentified speaker
“dictated to by a tiny elite of a hierarchy who would impose themselves over the entire system remember only a small number of people spoke Nahuatl the imperial language of the Aztecs only a small number spoke Quechua the imperial language of the Inca themselves it was the Inca Empire but it was constructed from multiple multiple different ethnicities and when they saw their chance they took it to side with the Spaniards”

Claim: Only a small number of people spoke Nahuatl, the Aztec imperial language, or Quechua, the Inca imperial language.

Unidentified speaker
“I think even if the Aztecs' Inca had won the short-term proximate victories, the longer-term demographic crisis would have undermined the functional capacity of their societies to remain integrated and to resist much longer the pressure within them.”

Claim: The speaker thinks that even if the Aztecs or Incas had won short-term victories, a longer-term demographic crisis would have weakened their societies' capacity to remain integrated and resist internal pressure.

Unidentified speaker
“from their subject peoples as they felt the authority of their overlords beginning to weaken would have led to their fragmentation which is the overarching cycle of pre-Columbian societies generally they're extremely impressive in fact more impressive when you consider the disadvantages they had to struggle with their pyramids were built not through the assistance of beast of burden or even the wheel but simply through pure manpower and the application of that to construct it The subject peoples would have broken for freedom.”

Claim: The speaker predicts that weakening overlord authority would have led subject peoples to break away and the societies to fragment.

Unidentified speaker
“from their subject peoples as they felt the authority of their overlords beginning to weaken would have led to their fragmentation which is the overarching cycle of pre-Columbian societies generally they're extremely impressive in fact more impressive when you consider the disadvantages they had to struggle with their pyramids were built not through the assistance of beast of burden or even the wheel but simply through pure manpower and the application of that to construct it”

Claim: Pre-Columbian pyramids were built through human labor without beasts of burden or the wheel.

Unidentified speaker
“from their subject peoples as they felt the authority of their overlords beginning to weaken would have led to their fragmentation which is the overarching cycle of pre-Columbian societies generally they're extremely impressive in fact more impressive when you consider the disadvantages they had to struggle with their pyramids were built not through the assistance of beast of burden or even the wheel but simply through pure manpower and the application of that to construct it”

Claim: The speaker considers pre-Columbian societies impressive, particularly given the disadvantages they faced.

Unidentified speaker
“The dispersed peoples, as you say, the Comanche, even the Maya in Mesoamerica, whose city-states jealously. asserted and defended their autonomy against each other meant that the Spanish couldn't take out the Maya in one fell swoop. They couldn't do to the Maya what they'd done to the Aztecs and the Inca.”

Claim: Because Maya city-states defended their autonomy from one another, the Spanish could not conquer the Maya in one decisive stroke as they had the Aztecs and Incas.

Unidentified speaker
“It took a long process of what amounts to really total war to finally bring them to heal, setting up barbed wire everywhere and, of course, slaughtering the buffalo to take away the basis for their culture and their food chain to finally bring the last holdouts to heal.”

Claim: Subduing the Indigenous holdouts required a prolonged campaign amounting to total war, including barbed wire and buffalo slaughter that undermined their culture and food supply.

Unidentified speaker
“If the Vikings had been able to claim a long-term presence in the New World they may have been able to drip feed European technology, European beasts of burden and above all European diseases slowly into the Americas so that 500 years later when the conquistadors did.”

Claim: If the Vikings had established a long-term presence in the New World, they might have gradually introduced European technology, beasts of burden, and diseases into the Americas.

Unidentified speaker
“I mean, I think Moctezuma II. From the moment when Cortez seized him, because previously the records of Montezuma reflect that he was a peddlers autocrat. He centralized all power in the aristocracy. Previously, it used to be possible to work up from outside the circle to the inner circle. But he forbade that.”

Claim: Before Cortés seized him, Moctezuma II centralized power within the aristocracy and barred people outside the circle from advancing into the inner circle.

Unidentified speaker
“he seems to have pulled the complete 180 switch and become... essentially willingly Cortez's puppet he was always trying to do what Cortez wanted in a way that would still be beneficial for his people but would not rock the boat so much in terms of Cortez's authority in the end it wasn't Cortez who disposed of it was his own people because they realized that he had sold them out and and he had to go his being”

Claim: After Cortés captured him, Moctezuma II became, in the speaker's account, a willing puppet who tried to satisfy Cortés while benefiting his people without substantially challenging Cortés's authority.

Unidentified speaker
“essentially willingly Cortez's puppet he was always trying to do what Cortez wanted in a way that would still be beneficial for his people but would not rock the boat so much in terms of Cortez's authority in the end it wasn't Cortez who disposed of it was his own people because they realized that he had sold them out and and he had to go his being unilaterally deposed, that had never happened before in Aztec history.”

Claim: Moctezuma II was deposed by his own people, who believed he had betrayed them; Cortés was not the one who removed him.

Unidentified speaker
“do that because bear in mind the deal was if he provided cortez and he walked into that room and said i can fill it up this high with with gold and silver and cosaro would promise to be released at that point perhaps he actually felt that this was a man of his word but cosaro in no case was and had him garroted to death after getting what he wanted so it may just be that he misinterpreted cosaro as someone who was on the same level that kings don't do this to other kings”

Claim: Atahualpa may have believed that providing the promised gold and silver ransom would lead Cortés to release him, and may have trusted Cortés to keep that promise.

Unidentified speaker
“do that because bear in mind the deal was if he provided cortez and he walked into that room and said i can fill it up this high with with gold and silver and cosaro would promise to be released at that point perhaps he actually felt that this was a man of his word but cosaro in no case was and had him garroted to death after getting what he wanted so it may just be that he misinterpreted cosaro as someone who was on the same level that kings don't do this to other kings”

Claim: Cortés had Atahualpa executed by garrote after obtaining what he wanted.

Unidentified speaker
“do that because bear in mind the deal was if he provided cortez and he walked into that room and said i can fill it up this high with with gold and silver and cosaro would promise to be released at that point perhaps he actually felt that this was a man of his word but cosaro in no case was and had him garroted to death after getting what he wanted so it may just be that he misinterpreted cosaro as someone who was on the same level that kings don't do this to other kings”

Claim: Atahualpa may have mistaken Cortés for a ruler who shared his standards, perhaps believing that kings do not break such agreements with other kings.

Unidentified speaker
“All they were doing was importing inflation and pushing prices up to levels and real wages in Spain actually fell during this period because, yes, there was excess liquidity, but this meant prices for even staple goods were much higher than they had been previously. And the ultimate negative effect was the seductive drug,”

Claim: During the silver-influx period, Spanish real wages fell while staple-goods prices rose substantially compared with earlier levels.

Unidentified speaker
“Trade is no longer trans-Eurasian or even transatlantic. It's transglobal. The networks now affect everybody at some point along the line. And the Ming found that out in the mid-1640s when there was a cash crisis having fully... transferred the basis of exchange in their empire to silver when access to silver was cut off or at least minimized for a number of reasons during the first half of the 17th century the Ming at the worst possible time with the Manchu at the gates could no longer fund their armies they couldn't pay to put a military in place to hold them off so the Manchus moved in at a moment of supreme advantage blew out the Ming and replaced them as the”

Claim: After the Ming empire made silver central to exchange, reduced access to silver in the first half of the 17th century contributed to a cash crisis by the mid-1640s.

Unidentified speaker
“transferred the basis of exchange in their empire to silver when access to silver was cut off or at least minimized for a number of reasons during the first half of the 17th century the Ming at the worst possible time with the Manchu at the gates could no longer fund their armies they couldn't pay to put a military in place to hold them off so the Manchus moved in at a moment of supreme advantage blew out the Ming and replaced them as the the new hegemons over the Chinese imperial zone.”

Claim: The Ming's inability to finance their armies during the silver-related cash crisis left them vulnerable to the Manchus, who defeated them and became the dominant power in the Chinese imperial zone.

Unidentified speaker
“or there's nothing to get out of this in the long run of course i guess the british did lose control of the new world but for a while they did gain these productive new colonies in the new world and i i don't know what the right word to think about this i mean there is this way of thinking about maybe the spanish set up this extractive because they had this very quick initial success they set up a very extractive uh settlement which um didn't result in net productive capacity in the long run,”

Claim: The Spanish may have established an extractive settlement after rapid initial success, but it did not produce net productive capacity in the long run.

Unidentified speaker
“or there's nothing to get out of this in the long run of course i guess the british did lose control of the new world but for a while they did gain these productive new colonies in the new world and i i don't know what the right word to think about this i mean there is this way of thinking about maybe the spanish set up this extractive because they had this very quick initial success they set up a very extractive uh settlement which um didn't result in net productive capacity in the long run,”

Claim: The speaker tentatively suggests that Spain's rapid early success led to extractive settlements that failed to create net productive capacity over the long term.

Unidentified speaker
“But be careful what you wish for because you may just actually get it. And those societies that have... has arrived at the quick fix whether that's gold or silver or or monocultural crop production of some kind which which gives you a monopoly on on its provision they become satisfied with that they become trapped within an environment that exists solely for that purpose and they don't develop beyond the essential thresholds that that allows for even here in the U.S. we can look at the difference between the north and the south that geographic line below that line”

Claim: Societies that obtain quick wealth from gold, silver, or monocultural crops may become satisfied with it and trapped in an economy organized around that purpose, limiting further development.

Unidentified speaker
“That all happened in the north. So when the rupture came in the 1860s and the north and south went to war, all those advantages were with the north, not just population, but the industrial base, the capital markets necessary for it to put in place a winning long-term strategy for actually defeating the south in that conflict.”

Claim: At the start of the U.S. Civil War in the 1860s, the North had advantages in population, industrial capacity, and capital markets that supported a long-term strategy for defeating the South.

Unidentified speaker
“going back to the Aztecs one thing that's remarkable here is just how bad their strategy and tactics often were for example because Aztec military conflict was based around capturing victims for sacrifice there are many cases where Cortez himself was laying on the ground and had been you know knocked off his horse but instead of just killing him on the ground and guarding their advantage the Aztecs were trying to like seize him to go have some sacrifice water and this”

Claim: Because Aztec warfare emphasized capturing victims for sacrifice, Aztec fighters sometimes tried to capture Cortes for sacrifice instead of killing him when he was incapacitated.

Unidentified speaker
“Another huge mistake that would happen in these conflicts is that in the traditional way in which this military conflict would happen is that the general would be garnished and plumbed with all this extra you know decorations basically which would make him easy to identify in a battlefield and if you have cavalry they can just see here's where the general is let's go get go directly to him kill him the whole enemy force will rout it just makes your entire chain of command you might have a hundred thousand troops But then your general dies and everybody else routes.”

Claim: In the traditional form of this conflict, conspicuously decorated generals could be targeted by cavalry, and their deaths could cause the army to rout.

Unidentified speaker
“If the rebellion had just kept attacking at night. instead of only attacking during day the Spaniards would have never gotten a chance to rest and would have just you know been depleted pretty quickly but instead they would let them rest at night wouldn't use their overwhelming numbers to do rotations that would attack at different times now why I find this confusing is that it's not like the conquistadors arrived at the doorsteps of a bunch of peace-loving hippies who didn't know anything about war”

Claim: If the rebellion had continued attacking at night rather than only by day, the Spaniards would have had no chance to rest and would have been depleted quickly.

Unidentified speaker
“There was great advantage throughout the feudal era in taking your enemies alive as opposed to killing them. killing them because then you can ransom them back to their families and you can come out of that ahead in terms of at least financial gain in a way the Aztec model is it makes more sense because sacrificing your enemy means you'll never see him again whereas selling your enemy back to his family means he's up for round two and you might face off against the same guy across the future battlefield even kings the kings of France after the battles of Poitiers and Pavia were captured and then”

Claim: Throughout the European feudal era, capturing enemies alive rather than killing them could yield financial gain by allowing them to be ransomed to their families.

Unidentified speaker
“And the nature of warfare in the pre-Columbian American and Europe for much of its history was driven by... the annual cycle of planting and harvesting the crops you need the men on their farms to do that because if they're not there then you face a very hard year coming up if you don't have enough crops set aside to get you through the winter and the following year so for all those reasons the NK yes those huge numbers weren't able to really overwhelmingly apply them at the same time if they caught perhaps”

Claim: For much of their histories, warfare in pre-Columbian America and Europe was constrained by the annual agricultural cycle because men were needed to plant and harvest enough crops for winter and the following year.

Unidentified speaker
“the annual cycle of planting and harvesting the crops you need the men on their farms to do that because if they're not there then you face a very hard year coming up if you don't have enough crops set aside to get you through the winter and the following year so for all those reasons the NK yes those huge numbers weren't able to really overwhelmingly apply them at the same time if they caught perhaps”

Claim: Despite their large numbers, the Inca forces could not bring their full numerical advantage to bear all at once.

Unidentified speaker
“the quality of life, particularly in extra-majority, which is the province in Spain with so many. many of these conquistadores originated from was a land of hardship it was small farms and dusty terrain and unproductive and they were aware of a wider world around them and as like so many men have throughout history they see their only path forward as being anything more than dirt farmers is to seek a career of high risk and potential”

Claim: Many conquistadors originated in Extremadura, a Spanish province with harsh conditions, small farms, dusty terrain, and unproductive land.

Unidentified speaker
“many of these conquistadores originated from was a land of hardship it was small farms and dusty terrain and unproductive and they were aware of a wider world around them and as like so many men have throughout history they see their only path forward as being anything more than dirt farmers is to seek a career of high risk and potential even fatal outcomes, but possible great reward as well.”

Claim: Some conquistadors viewed high-risk ventures, potentially fatal, as a route to rewards beyond what they could obtain as dirt farmers.

Unidentified speaker
“and yeah i could keep fighting in the campaigns against the moors or against the turks but those are high risk low return ventures yeah i'll be fighting in my home waters but what will the potential rewards be these turks can fight right the message i'm getting from the far side of the atlantic is the the risks there are much lower and the potential rewards much higher it means traveling across a vast ocean it means”

Claim: The speaker characterizes campaigns against the Moors or Turks as high-risk, low-return ventures, compared with the apparently lower risks and much higher potential rewards of expeditions across the Atlantic.

Unidentified speaker
“I don't see any reason why that would be untrue. I mean it would be shocking to actually see that happen and Cortes when Montezuma invited him to the top of one of the two great pyramids in Tenochtitlan he remarks the priests were adorned from head to foot in black clay or body paint and and the interior was was black with with spilled blood and it stank. stank of bomb the beast so i don't see any reason why They wouldn't be genuinely mortified by that.”

Claim: The speaker considers it plausible that the conquistadors were genuinely horrified by Aztec human sacrifice and sees no reason to doubt their reaction.

Unidentified speaker
“You can salve your conscience in many ways by doing that. Then in real terms, I'm here for what I can take. But I am performing the will of God and therefore I have some absolution when I'm called to account at the end of the day. So men will sometimes seek to find a higher purpose in what are very low endeavors.”

Claim: The speaker says conquistadors could ease their consciences with religious justification even as they pursued material gain.

Unidentified speaker
“all be hunted down so the feeling was the pickings here are pretty easy and the enthusiastic attitude was well why would it be any different in the mainland of course they did run up against heavy fighting and some of them would say afterwards the veterans of wars against the turks this was some of the hardest fighting i've ever been through um but by that point they'd seen that the potential rewards are much higher as well when they arrived at lake tishkoko they would marvel as if we'd have just arrived in atlantis right”

Claim: The Spanish encountered intense mainland resistance; some veterans of wars against the Turks later called it among the hardest fighting they had experienced.

Unidentified speaker
“all be hunted down so the feeling was the pickings here are pretty easy and the enthusiastic attitude was well why would it be any different in the mainland of course they did run up against heavy fighting and some of them would say afterwards the veterans of wars against the turks this was some of the hardest fighting i've ever been through um but by that point they'd seen that the potential rewards are much higher as well when they arrived at lake tishkoko they would marvel as if we'd have just arrived in atlantis right”

Claim: The conquistadors perceived the potential rewards of mainland conquest as much greater than those of their earlier Caribbean ventures.

Unidentified speaker
“all be hunted down so the feeling was the pickings here are pretty easy and the enthusiastic attitude was well why would it be any different in the mainland of course they did run up against heavy fighting and some of them would say afterwards the veterans of wars against the turks this was some of the hardest fighting i've ever been through um but by that point they'd seen that the potential rewards are much higher as well when they arrived at lake tishkoko they would marvel as if we'd have just arrived in atlantis right”

Claim: After relatively easy conquests in the Caribbean, the conquistadors expected mainland conquests to be similarly easy.

Unidentified speaker
“temples and to them this this both awed them and inflamed that that greed that they had and Cortez himself admitted as much to Montezuma's own voice he said my men and I suffer from a disease of the heart that only gold can cure so Montezuma sent him feathered headdresses and all the and all the traditional regalia he sent him jade and obsidian which in the Aztec world would have been symbols of great regard and Cortez was happy to put on the headdress and he sent it back to the king but the little trinkets of gold that he was”

Claim: Montezuma sent Cortés feathered headdresses and traditional regalia, including jade and obsidian, which represented great regard in Aztec culture.

Unidentified speaker
“billy um bernal diaz who wrote like was on this cortez's expedition and wrote a firsthand account of what happened afterwards he basically says in his account that basically in every single town we come across even small outlying villages on the empire every temple every city just has tons of human sacrifice remains left over so this is just an endemic part of the society that i guess must have horrified the spanish i mean they weren't exact um it's hard to square any sort of”

Claim: Bernal Díaz’s firsthand account describes human-sacrifice remains in temples and cities across nearly every town, including small outlying villages in the empire.

Unidentified speaker
“humanitarian uh even plausible motivation to the spanish they were just very willing um and i think maybe even worse than almost any other european conquest ever uh the spanish in the new world is massacre huge swaths of innocent women and children uh like literal genocide intentional genocide not just disease um yeah crazy amounts of rape and assault so”

Claim: The speaker characterizes Spanish conquest in the New World as intentional genocide involving massacres of huge numbers of innocent women and children, not merely deaths from disease.

Unidentified speaker
“humanitarian uh even plausible motivation to the spanish they were just very willing um and i think maybe even worse than almost any other european conquest ever uh the spanish in the new world is massacre huge swaths of innocent women and children uh like literal genocide intentional genocide not just disease um yeah crazy amounts of rape and assault so”

Claim: The speaker says Spanish conquest in the New World involved extensive rape and assault.

Unidentified speaker
“There were a regular cycle of sacrifice and that would peak according to particular crises, major campaigns or the like. There are accounts, again, these are distorted accounts, but an almost industrial level of human sacrifice that the parade of prisoners who've been drugged to keep them pacified stretched from the pyramid complex all the way.”

Claim: Although the accounts are distorted, the speaker says they describe human sacrifice on an almost industrial scale, including drugged prisoners paraded from the pyramid complex.

Unidentified speaker
“to the causeways one after the other they'd be worn up to the the top of the pyramids to the temple complex four priests each would take an arm and a leg while a fifth one would use an obsidian blade to open an incision and pull out the heart which we offer to the gods i've been to those pyramids the ones that you to walk in the the steps leading up are very very narrow you almost have to walk up sideways deliberately so because when the heart had been taken out and burned the body would be tumbled off the far side right and the steps were so steep to allow it to tumble all the way to the bottom and then the warrior who'd taken that prisoner would then take the flesh home to be consumed it was the consummation of his victory as a warrior to take on literally internalize the defeated enemy so this was as you say it's a cycle that the world is better off without i'm not going to make any excuses for it but the motivations of those who did that that was not”

Claim: The speaker says that after the victim’s heart was removed and burned, the body was rolled down the pyramid steps.

Unidentified speaker
“to the causeways one after the other they'd be worn up to the the top of the pyramids to the temple complex four priests each would take an arm and a leg while a fifth one would use an obsidian blade to open an incision and pull out the heart which we offer to the gods i've been to those pyramids the ones that you to walk in the the steps leading up are very very narrow you almost have to walk up sideways deliberately so because when the heart had been taken out and burned the body would be tumbled off the far side”

Claim: The speaker describes a sacrifice in which four priests held the victim’s limbs while a fifth used an obsidian blade to open the chest and remove the heart as an offering to the gods.

Unidentified speaker
“right and the steps were so steep to allow it to tumble all the way to the bottom and then the warrior who'd taken that prisoner would then take the flesh home to be consumed it was the consummation of his victory as a warrior to take on literally internalize the defeated enemy so this was as you say it's a cycle that the world is better off without i'm not going to make any excuses for it but the motivations of those who did that that was not”

Claim: The speaker says the warrior who captured a prisoner took the victim’s flesh home to eat as a culmination of victory and a literal internalization of the defeated enemy.

Unidentified speaker
“right and the steps were so steep to allow it to tumble all the way to the bottom and then the warrior who'd taken that prisoner would then take the flesh home to be consumed it was the consummation of his victory as a warrior to take on literally internalize the defeated enemy so this was as you say it's a cycle that the world is better off without i'm not going to make any excuses for it but the motivations of those who did that that was not selfless. It was at best a beneficial side effect window dressing Yeah. on a process of colonization and even literal genocide and even less validation in South America because there was no such tradition at all.”

Claim: The speaker argues that the motivations of those who practiced human sacrifice were not selfless, and that any benefit to others was at best a side effect or pretext amid colonization and genocide.

Unidentified speaker
“right and the steps were so steep to allow it to tumble all the way to the bottom and then the warrior who'd taken that prisoner would then take the flesh home to be consumed it was the consummation of his victory as a warrior to take on literally internalize the defeated enemy so this was as you say it's a cycle that the world is better off without i'm not going to make any excuses for it but the motivations of those who did that that was not”

Claim: The speaker believes the world is better off without the cycle of human sacrifice and says he will not excuse it.

Unidentified speaker
“who succeeded his brother Montezuma II as Huey Latouane. After driving the Spaniards out during La Noche Triste, he sent emissaries to the Tlaxcalans, to the Tarascans to build an expanded or new triple alliance to come together as native people with a common interest against these outsiders.”

Claim: The speaker says Cuitláhuac succeeded Montezuma II after La Noche Triste and sent emissaries to the Tlaxcalans and Tarascans to seek a broader Indigenous alliance against the Spanish.

Unidentified speaker
“The Lashkalan younger generation thought about it, but the old men who still retained power, who had been fighting against the Aztecs for decades and saw them as, in the end, the existential threat, repudiated this possibility.”

Claim: The speaker says younger Tlaxcalans considered Cuitláhuac’s alliance proposal, but older leaders rejected it because they had fought the Aztecs for decades and still saw them as the existential threat.

Unidentified speaker
“So they couldn't overcome the kind of institutional hostilities. these which go way way back through their history the only way that that the indigenous people could have played the same game and to a degree this did happen later was to play different european powers off against each other but of course the problem for for the aztecs for the inca was the spanish were the only game in town they were the only outsiders they'd encountered if the english french”

Claim: The speaker says Indigenous peoples could not overcome institutional hostilities that had deep historical roots.

Unidentified speaker
“these which go way way back through their history the only way that that the indigenous people could have played the same game and to a degree this did happen later was to play different european powers off against each other but of course the problem for for the aztecs for the inca was the spanish were the only game in town they were the only outsiders they'd encountered if the english french”

Claim: The speaker says Indigenous peoples could sometimes exploit rivalries among European powers, but the Aztecs and Inca could not do so because the Spanish were the only outsiders they had encountered at that early stage.

Unidentified speaker
“Dutch even the Ottomans had been players in New World colonization at that very early stage it may have been possible for local peoples to identify okay these are different cultures we can play them off against each other to our advantage that may have been the game but at that time it wasn't possible”

Claim: The speaker says Indigenous peoples might have exploited rivalries among English, French, Dutch, and Ottoman powers if those powers had been involved in early New World colonization, but they were not involved at that time.

Unidentified speaker
“Subsequently, his successes didn't have whatever you call the authority, the charisma, the res, whatever you want to define it. to maintain that hegemony which he established by almost taking over all of India and the Mughals was at root had the same problem that the Manchu did when they conquered the Ming in the 17th century and they built the Qing dynasty China the greatest physical extent it ever had but they were always outsiders they were not indigenous to the population and the background there was always that vague resentment”

Claim: Aurangzeb's successors lacked the authority or charisma to maintain the Mughal hegemony that he had established by nearly taking over all of India.

Unidentified speaker
“to maintain that hegemony which he established by almost taking over all of India and the Mughals was at root had the same problem that the Manchu did when they conquered the Ming in the 17th century and they built the Qing dynasty China the greatest physical extent it ever had but they were always outsiders they were not indigenous to the population and the background there was always that vague resentment that were being ruled here by foreigners and that was okay while they were going from success to success but when the momentum halts and it begins to”

Claim: The Mughal rulers and the Manchu rulers of Qing China were outsiders, not indigenous to the populations they governed, which created underlying resentment.

Unidentified speaker
“that were being ruled here by foreigners and that was okay while they were going from success to success but when the momentum halts and it begins to to roll backwards. That's when the local power brokers begin to feel to themselves, maybe we have more to gain from breaking away from the empire than we do from remaining within it.”

Claim: In the Mughal and Manchu empires, local power brokers were more likely to favor secession when imperial success stalled and reversed, because they saw greater benefit in leaving than remaining under foreign rulers.

Unidentified speaker
“it wasn't necessarily like the most competent people who were in charge of the eastern journey i mean we're the like pretty competent people robert clive and his underlings um and you would have instances for in for example i think the navab of bengal uh right before the british are able to gain control of bengal which is the initial attack space that they set up in order”

Claim: The speaker says the East India Company did not necessarily place its most competent people in charge of its eastern operations, while describing Robert Clive and his subordinates as fairly competent.

Unidentified speaker
“Sepoys. So I think this is an underrated thing of just... be yeah being able to delegate competent people and then like being able to replace them uh one after another if they get killed or if they resign or something there's not going to be some crazy succession crisis that creates this anarchy that then somebody else can swoop in and take control”

Claim: The speaker argues that an organization able to delegate to competent people and replace them after death or resignation can avoid succession crises and the resulting anarchy that might enable a rival to seize power.

Unidentified speaker
“In non-democratic environments, yes, the corporations, for the reasons you outlined, profit driven and therefore not loyal to bloodlines or any other kind of extraneous circumstances, but just looking for the most competent leadership and capacity to change and replace people are much more flexible than those kind of hierarchical states,”

Claim: In non-democratic settings, corporations can be more flexible than hierarchical states because profit incentives let them choose and replace leaders for competence rather than bloodline or other extraneous considerations.

Unidentified speaker
“driven by those motives acting with almost planetary powers at vast distances had the flexibility on the ground to take advantage of local circumstances to insert themselves into diplomatic arrangements which have persisted for centuries with all the accumulated grievances here we're the fresh newcomers we have obviously skills of what we do as you say taking control of the tax revenue of Bengal effectively took control of the entire political orbit what can you do without taxation reorient that towards the shareholders”

Claim: Powerful corporations operating across vast distances could adapt to local circumstances and enter diplomatic arrangements that endured for centuries.

Unidentified speaker
“driven by those motives acting with almost planetary powers at vast distances had the flexibility on the ground to take advantage of local circumstances to insert themselves into diplomatic arrangements which have persisted for centuries with all the accumulated grievances here we're the fresh newcomers we have obviously skills of what we do as you say taking control of the tax revenue of Bengal effectively took control of the entire political orbit what can you do without taxation reorient that towards the shareholders”

Claim: The East India Company’s control of Bengal’s tax revenue effectively gave it control over Bengal’s political sphere and redirected revenue to shareholders.

Unidentified speaker
“All this forced the local people to stop producing these crops, even if it means millions starved to death, in order to produce opium to take advantage of that, which was devastating in its impact in political structures that had no real environment where that was part of their established traditions.”

Claim: Colonial corporations compelled local populations to abandon other crops and produce opium, even at the cost of millions of deaths by starvation.

Unidentified speaker
“uh conquistadors had over these empires are not that shockingly big right as you mentioned guns at this time are not good enough to actually be that helpful during battle so it's basically horses and it's steel weapons in fact i think we i don't know we've talked about this but towards the ends of these conquest or the middles of these conquest the metal is weighing them down and it's really hot and stuff so they're even like receding to the cotton armor”

Claim: The conquistadors’ technological edge over the empires they conquered was limited: firearms contributed little in battle, while horses and steel weapons were more important advantages.

Unidentified speaker
“They would always keep their helmets to protect their head, but many of them were ditching the metal armor in favor of the local stuff. stuff because that was good enough as protection against local weapons they would not have done that carried it back to europe that would have made them too vulnerable but here you adapt to the circumstances you have more freedom of mobility it's less exhausting wearing cotton than it is to wear metal so they would make that adaptation they would even sometimes for very prized allies again as a way of integrating them into the spanish coalition is provide them like local chiefs and warlords with spanish weapons just to emphasize that they”

Claim: In hot conditions during the conquests, conquistadors sometimes switched from metal armor to local cotton armor because it was less exhausting and allowed greater mobility.

Unidentified speaker
“stuff because that was good enough as protection against local weapons they would not have done that carried it back to europe that would have made them too vulnerable but here you adapt to the circumstances you have more freedom of mobility it's less exhausting wearing cotton than it is to wear metal so they would make that adaptation they would even sometimes for very prized allies again as a way of integrating them into the spanish coalition is provide them like local chiefs and warlords with spanish weapons just to emphasize that they that you're so special to me and this this was effective in binding them together and and they were very very clever in identifying the local sub chiefs beneath the Aztec layer of authority who would be receptive to the idea of why you're taking orders from them when you get a better deal from us right they knew for example in”

Claim: The Spanish sometimes supplied weapons to valued local chiefs and warlords as a way to bind them into their coalition.

Unidentified speaker
“that you're so special to me and this this was effective in binding them together and and they were very very clever in identifying the local sub chiefs beneath the Aztec layer of authority who would be receptive to the idea of why you're taking orders from them when you get a better deal from us right they knew for example in”

Claim: The Spanish effectively recruited local sub-chiefs under Aztec authority by appealing to the possibility of better terms under Spanish rule.